3 1/2 fret

[rifleman]

What can I substitute for the 3 1/2 fret? Using 3 or 4 doesn't sound right.

[ronzuckerman]

If you are using a 1-5-8 tuning, such as DAD, you can substitute the 6 1/2 fret on the middle string. An alternative is to finger the 3rd fret and use bending to raise the note a half step.

[rendesvous1840]

What tuning are you in, and what purpose will this missing note fulfill? Different requirements may require different solutions. Sometimes a substitute is further away than 1/2 step. If the missing note is needed to fill in a chord, the answer may be different than if it is a missing melody note. In some situations, the best answer is a different tuning.
Paul

[zanetti]

Yes, you can get the sharped 3rd fret of the treble string (G sharp) by playing it up at 6+ on the middle string.

But, I'm guessing that you want the 3 1/2 fret because you are looking for the "raised 7th" in minor keys. So, for example, you may be looking for a D sharp when you play in e minor. (A lot of folk music uses the d natural in e minor, because many folk tunes use the "natural minor"; but in some tunes and especially classical music the minor scale on which the tune is based is the "harmonic" minor, which has a raised seventh step of the scale (i.e. d sharp if you're in e minor). And that raised seventh may be in the melody line, or we may "hear" it - or what to hear it when we play the V chord (dominant chord) as part of the harmony (so that, would be the b chord if you're in e minor).

I've yet to find a way to get that note (raised seventh) in DAD tuning, not for ANY minor key. (For instance, DAD tuning works nicely for tunes in f "natural" minor, but b harmonic minor needs an A sharp, which is not there). If this is the problem you're grappling with, here are two possible solutions:

1- try tuning in DAC. In that tuning, you'll be in d minor, and you'll have a raised 7th in ONE place, fret 2 of middle string. Sometimes that solves the problem.
2- if the note that you need is not in the melody, but you're wishing for it in the harmony chord---- try staying in DAD. But, when you come to that chord where you want the raised seventh (i.e. in e minor, it would be when you play the V chord, which will come out as a b minor, but if you had a D sharp, it would be a B major chord) try playing a b "neutral" chord, that is a chord that contains ONLY b and F sharp, no D's. You're ear will miss the D sharp, but better than have the d natural which would be even more bothersome, and, in fact your mind's ear may actually let you think that the d sharp is sounding.

If anyone with more music theory background can give a better explanation OR can solve the problem better than all this, please do write in. I have often wished for the ability to play minor tunes that use the harmonic minor, but have concluded (perhaps erroneously) that it's not doable in DAD, and not terribly doable in any tuning, other than chromatic ones.

thanks
Nina

[rendesvous1840]

DAD gives us the mixolydian mode,which is a Major mode, as it contains a major 3rd. This pretty much makes it useless for any minor scale. The harmonic minor doesn't correspond exactly to any of the modal tunings, as it contains an accidental, the natural 7th. But at this point, we don't have enough info from rifleman to really give a good answer. We are guessing what the situation is, without full information.
Paul

[zanetti]

Paul, you are correct that IF you're playing noter-drone, you cannot play in a minor mode in DAD tuning. However, if you are willing to capo or chord, you can play quite nicely in a number of minor key in DADs, just not the harmonic minor. Aeolian mode is the same as the "natural minor", which does NOT have the raised seventh (that's what I was trying to explain). So, for example e minor (natural minor = Aeolian mode) is e-f sharp-g-a-b-c -d-e. I LOVE playing in e minor in DAD tuning, sometimes with a capo, sometimes without. It just requires some careful chord-melody playing. Because of the 6 + fret, if we play chord-melody style, we can also play in e dorian in DAD, b/c we have all the notes of the dorian mode: e - f sharp-g-a-b-c sharp-d-e. Other minor (Aeolian) keys that work are b minor (one of my favorite keys for DAD tuning) and even a minor.

Just wanted to clarify for those who want to try playing minor tunes in DAD.

thanks
Nina
www.ninazanetti.com

[Ken Bloom]

I use this fret a lot. Very handy for playing in A as well as all the klezmer tunes I like to play. Why not just have the 3 1/2 fret put in? That would save all the huge stretches and other contortions. Once you have it, you'll be surprised at how useful it can be. Just my 2p.

Ken Bloom
http://www.boweddulcimer.com

[Bonnie in Houston]

I use this fret a lot. Very handy for playing in A as well as all the klezmer tunes I like to play. Why not just have the 3 1/2 fret put in? That would save all the huge stretches and other contortions. Once you have it, you'll be surprised at how useful it can be. Just my 2p.

Better yet, why not just learn to play a fully chromatic dulcimer if you have a mind to play anything other than strictly diatonic tunes? With the proper fret markers, it's all so simple...

[rendesvous1840]

It always seems to me that a capo gives, but it also takes away. If you want to understand modes, you need to tune to them and use them.
When you capo, you don't always get the notes you need to play the right chords, should you play chord style. This leaves players using the 101 A7 instead of a C chord. It sounds wrong, but sorta functions. Unless the guitar or mandolin, or another dulcimer in the correct modal tuning are playing the C chord. Then it clashes. I do both drones and chords, sometimes in the same song. DAD can be capoed to play other modes, but won't give me the C natural that DAC gives me at the low end of the fret board. Extra frets are fine for complex songs like swing, and could be necessary for a lot of non traditional songs. Chromatic also has it's place. But why reject knowledge in favor of mechanical additions?
Paul

[rendesvous1840]

I think we are perhaps reading a lot into the original question, as we still have no further input on what he was trying to play, and why he needed the 31/2 fret. I hope we haven't scared him off!
Paul

[folkfan]

Paul, I hope he hasn't been frightened off. Sometimes a tune has an accidental or two thrown in that can be very difficult to play on a diatonic or even a semi diatonic instrument. Perhaps rifleman has a tune like that.

Last night I was looking at a song called "Milk And Honey" written in the key of C going from the F below middle C to the c above middle c with a couple of the A's being flatted just for the heck of it. It's going to be fun getting out my cheat sheets to see how to fret this one. hehehehee

[zanetti]

I agree, I hope we haven't scared anyone off. BUT, I have often struggled myself to get that raised seventh in a minor mode (in chord melody style), and I've occasionally had a student who bumps into this, so I wanted to write about it, in case that's what the original writer was struggling with and perhaps wondering if he was missing something.

Also- should anyone want to know- if playing chord melody style in DAD tuning it is VERY possible to get some nice C chords: 3-4-6 or 8-6-6. I agree, if a tune calls for a C chord , it's nice to have it in this tuning, instead of substituting 101, which will NOT sound right (e.g. if you want to make Old Joe Clark sound Mixolydian better to use C chord than A7).

my two cents
Nina