When did half-width frets vanish? (was: Full-width frets)

[pristine2]

I've taken my own advice and poured through LA Smith's A Catalogue again --- along with some fascinating academic notes sent by a friend.

Really the better question is as revised: when did half-width frets vanish? That's because even in the 19th century, some builders were stretching their brads or staples all the way across the fretboard and under all of the strings.

It appears almost none were doing this in the 1940s and 1950s, though.

[strumelia]

Really the better question is as revised: when did half-width frets vanish? That's because even in the 19th century, some builders were stretching their brads or staples all the way across the fretboard and under all of the strings.

Would that perhaps be partly because the mtn dulcimer descended from various European ancestors, some of which may have had full width frets or full width staples commonly used for those particular instruments in their homeland?
Am i mistaken, or didn't some of the dulcimer zither-ish ancestor instruments have several differently tuned melody strings under a wide fret, and then additionally several drone strings with no frets under them?
Part of the equation here also relates to when/what happened when the fretboard was raised up from the soundbox as a separate thing, thus effectively limiting the width of the 'fretboard' instead of the entire soundbox top surface being available. Isn't a raised and central fretboard one of the criteria used by historians to identify an Appalachian dulcimer as being distinct from some of the European immigrant's early instruments?
I'm fuzzy on this and maybe missing something obvious...not wide awake this morning.

[strumelia]

I should have been clearer - I was talking about specifically the recordings made of mountain dulcimer players rather than the wealth of early recordings of American folk music in gerneral.

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood.

[Ken Bloom]

Kratz-zithers and hummls often have two melody strings or courses. These are usually tuned the same but give you the possibility of playing in thirds. Listen to the recordings of Otto Malmberg from 1917 and you will see what I mean. In a discussion like this I think you have to keep in mind that in the 19th and early 20th centuries the areas where you found dulcimers were isolated and the number of instruments that were actually around was small when compared with banjos and fiddles. Dulcimer makers today are highly individual and I think the same applies to the older pre-Revival makers as well. That being said, even people in the backwoods don't live in a complete vacuum, especially after the Civil War. Outside influences abound, including the all-important Sears and Roebuck and Mongomery Ward catalogues. You have to be very careful when drawing large conclusions and generalizations from a small number of extent examples. That's what makes the exhibit at the Blue Ridge Institute so valuable.
Real scholarship into the history and organology of the mountain dulcimer is still in its infancy. As more information comes to light, the picture becomes somewhat clearer. Forums like this help a lot.

Ken Bloom
http://www.boweddulcimer.com

[Dan Landrum]

Ralph Smith emailed me the following reply to this thread (thanks for pointing me to the right thread Pristine):


A serious historical effort to answer this question is overdue! So is a similar effort to learn about the introduction of the 6 1/2 fret and its relation to the increasing replacement of DAA with DAD, for basic tuning. From my own collection, I can push the horizon a bit further back. I own Edd Presnell dulcimer No. 53, made in 1958, which is fretted all the way across with standard instrument fretwire, and has a 6 1/2 fret. Obviously, the skinny from all those Eastern city slickers reached Edd sometime before that! Or was it those California hippies?

Ralph

[folkfan]

Just a thought, could the move have occurred when more dulcimers were being made by luthiers who also made fully fretted instruments like guitars etc. They would have been more used to a full width fret installation rather than fussing with putting in half frets? As I said, "Just a thought"

[pristine2]

Ralph Smith emailed me the following reply to this thread (thanks for pointing me to the right thread Pristine):


A serious historical effort to answer this question is overdue! So is a similar effort to learn about the introduction of the 6 1/2 fret and its relation to the increasing replacement of DAA with DAD, for basic tuning. From my own collection, I can push the horizon a bit further back. I own Edd Presnell dulcimer No. 53, made in 1958, which is fretted all the way across with standard instrument fretwire, and has a 6 1/2 fret. Obviously, the skinny from all those Eastern city slickers reached Edd sometime before that! Or was it those California hippies?

Ralph

Thanks for this! I'd wondered about Presnell's use of the 6 1/2 -- I have three Presnells, two which have a 6 1/2. I was never entirely sure whether they were added later or not.

[strumelia]

Just a thought, could the move have occurred when more dulcimers were being made by luthiers who also made fully fretted instruments like guitars etc. They would have been more used to a full width fret installation rather than fussing with putting in half frets? As I said, "Just a thought"

Yes I sort of suggested that as well in the second post of this thread. Makes sense to me, especially during the revival when instrument makers began making mtn dulcimers for the urban folksingers who were used to chording guitars. By 1958 the folk craze was already in full swing.
Jean Ritchie gave her first formal concert in Greenwich Village, at the Mews Theatre in either 1948 or 1950 (depending on where you read it).

Here is a bit of info about how Jean introduced Richard Farina to the instrument:
http://www.richardandmimi.com/dulcimer.html
Because of Jean and her mountain instrument, by the late 1950's there were traditional style dulcimers from Appalachia makers for sale in Greenwich Village (!).
Ralph writes that his first dulcimer was a Frank Glenn, purchased by Ralph in Greenwich Village at the Folklore Center in the late 1950s. He wrote that he broke the original carved tuning pegs by stringing the dulcimer with heavy guitar strings, and replaced the pegs with viola pegs. He also had the half frets removed and replaced with full width frets. He later very much regretted having done these things to the dulcimer.

[Dan Landrum]

I just got an email from Skip Hicks who is Ed Presnell's great-grandson. He's not a luthier but is interested in connecting with the dulcimer community. He also might be a good person to at least help connect some of the dots. I'm encouraging him to get involved in the forums here so if you see him as a new member, please, welcome him with open arms - not that you wouldn't do that any way!

[folkfan]

Paul Clayton in his information pamphlet that accompanied his record Dulcimer Songs and Solos (copyright 1962) says that he saw his first dulcimer in 1950 at the Virginia Folk Festival. He then says that he got an Amburguey instrument with 3 strings and half frets and he played that until he was presented with a full fretted 3 string by A.W. Jeffreys. He then says that he has used the Jeffreys instrument exclusively since. Later he gives the time frame for the Jeffreys acquisition when he states that he has carried his dulcimer with him for the past 10 years.

We can deduce then that Jeffreys was making full fretted dulcimers by 1952 at least.

[pristine2]

Paul Clayton in his information pamphlet that accompanied his record Dulcimer Songs and Solos (copyright 1962) says that he saw his first dulcimer in 1950 at the Virginia Folk Festival. He then says that he got an Amburguey instrument with 3 strings and half frets and he played that until he was presented with a full fretted 3 string by A.W. Jeffreys. He then says that he has used the Jeffreys instrument exclusively since. Later he gives the time frame for the Jeffreys acquisition when he states that he has carried his dulcimer with him for the past 10 years.

We can deduce then that Jeffreys was making full fretted dulcimers by 1952 at the latest.

Interesting! I had not realised Jeffreys was building so early.

[Dennis Dorogi]

I have an instrument that Ann Grimes gave to me that has full-width frets that is clearly dated 1923.

Dennis Dorogi