Ashokan Farewell Tab?

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Re: Ashokan Farewell Tab?

Postby mrchips » Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:49 pm

I may be old 3/4 blind, and often confused, but I dont see a name of "administrator" anywhere in the "official" owners and operators list of ED so how do you assume to set "policy" here???

Your opinion is a valid one but Don't assume you're setting policy here as you're clearly not.

I speak for myself and NOT for ED or the operators.
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Re: Ashokan Farewell Tab?

Postby cboody » Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:10 pm

Well, I'm not the administrator either, but I am happy to see someone speaking out in support of copyright for living composers. Sharing of PD sites is probably no sin, but stating that you can find a work clearly still in copyright there free might be. Morally anyway.

I'm sure Jay Ungar has lost control of Ashokan Farewell completely (and probably Wizard's Walk among others) just as the Kleenix folks lost control of their brand name. That doesn't mean though that we should ignore that portion of copyright. It is sad to see the tiny revenues, or worse the recognition of composer's efforts, for things like Inisheer, Da Slocket Light, Dark Island, Josefin's Waltz and My Cape Breton Home be denied just because those of us in the trad world pass things around with so little attention to the niceties of respecting the composer. Most of those folks would be happy to give permission (as Jay did to thesession) if they are just asked. Then we can attach their name to the music we pass on with the knowledge that we are respecting the composer.

Don't misunderstand. I think the (US) copyright law is largely set up to benefit Disney, Time Warner, Michael Jackson (if his estate still owns what it used to) and a handful of others to the detriment of the rest of us. But that, it seems to me, is different from being careful in attributing the music of living or very recently dead composers correctly and attending to whatever moral or financial responsibilities we have to respect their work. Have you ever heard Ashokan Farewell introduced as "a famous old Civil War tune?" I have. And it was in a concert of a fine professional group who should have known better. When I pointed it out to them the response was that they knew but didn't think it important. Baloney!

OK, stepping off (very high) soap box and donning flameproof suit! :)
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Re: Ashokan Farewell Tab?

Postby Dan Landrum » Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:44 am

That was me who asked folks to share such links privately. I just happened to be logged in as an administrator at the time because I was doing some site work.

I didn't say anything about site policy. I didn't, and don't intend to, delete anyone's post. There's no new (or old) rule. I only asked, using the word "please," that folks would do so privately. I'm a community member too, and this is a gray area which produces healthy cognitive dissonance.

Constitutionally protected sites with the sole purpose of sharing copyrighted links abound. Ed isn't one of them.

I see now that it would have been better if I hadn't been logged in with my administrator account and if I had prefaced my sentence with "Might I suggest . . .."
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Re: Ashokan Farewell Tab?

Postby Bluebird7636 » Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:09 pm

Seems I owe you all an apology - I was smitten by this haunting melody since Ken Burns' Civil War documentary, and it wasn't until reading the replies that I found out it wasn't a tune from that era. I'll do more research the next time!
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Re: Ashokan Farewell Tab?

Postby southernmiss » Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:56 pm

No apology needed from you, Bluebird. It was a fair question and generated a valid discussion. Many people have surmised "Ashokan Farewell" to be an older song than it is because of its use in the Ken Burns' documentary. Keep asking questions. They're always helpful to a lot of folks here on ED. Many times I've tried to research a song with no luck, but the moment I asked about it here on ED, someone came to my aid.

:)

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Re: Ashokan Farewell Tab?

Postby mrchips » Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:29 am

Many people think Ashokan Farewell is a Civil War era tune, its not. Its actually about an upstate New York town that got flooded out when they built a lake. The story I heard is Ken Burns just loved the tune and it sounded "right" So he used it for that PBS series. I just bought a copy of the sheet music and went from there to learn it, no tabs needed.
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Re: Ashokan Farewell Tab?

Postby rendesvous1840 » Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:29 am

The story is on the Jay Unger & Molly Mason web site. Jay lives near there and teaches at the Ashokan Fiddle & Dance Camps held there.
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Re: Ashokan Farewell Tab?

Postby cboody » Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:06 am

And just to clarify: The tune was written to express Jay's feelings about the end of the Ashokan fiddle fest that year, not about a flooded town.

http://www.jayandmolly.com/ashokanfaq.shtml
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Re: Ashokan Farewell Tab?

Postby KenH » Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:48 am

Dan Said: "violation of copyright is a crime and violators can be prosecuted by the copyright holder. So can the site owners if they allow it to happen. That means you get permission first.

I want everyone to know that, as a published author who has has material "stolen", I am strongly in favor of anything that protects my copyrights.

However, copyright violation comes from the improper use of copyrighted material, not telling someone where that material is stored. Truth be told, no author cares if someone is reading or using his/er work, as long as that person is not making a profit doing so. Giving out links to t5he location of material is like giving out the address of a bank. It's not illegal to give someone the address of a bank; even though it's illegal for that person to rob banks.
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Re: Ashokan Farewell Tab?

Postby jakstall » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:14 pm

KenH wrote:Dan Said: "violation of copyright is a crime and violators can be prosecuted by the copyright holder. So can the site owners if they allow it to happen. That means you get permission first.



Ken: It was Skip (not Dan) who posted what you are quoting.

Bottom line, Ashokan Farewell is a beautiful tune that is easy to play on a dulcimer. It is under copyright and Jay Ungar tries to protect his rights under that copyright. That said, it is a pretty simple tune to pick out by ear or one can find (legal) sheet music a number of places to help create tab for personal use.
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Re: Ashokan Farewell Tab?

Postby strumelia » Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:03 pm

KenH wrote:However, copyright violation comes from the improper use of copyrighted material, not telling someone where that material is stored. Truth be told, no author cares if someone is reading or using his/er work, as long as that person is not making a profit doing so. Giving out links to t5he location of material is like giving out the address of a bank. It's not illegal to give someone the address of a bank; even though it's illegal for that person to rob banks.


I respectfully beg to differ, Ken. If someone buys a legit copy of Jay Unger's tune, and then makes zeroxes of it and gives it out for free to their friends or posts it for free on the web or hands it out at a dulcimer club, that's just as much of a copyright violation as if they were selling the copies for profit. When you buy a copy legitimately, it's for your own personal use, not to distribute to others, either for profit or for free. (unless of course you have the author's permission to do so for some special use.)
If some website is offering/distributing illegal copies of a copyrighted work, then ethically it is not right for someone to point others to it on a site like this. I can certainly understand why that would be discouraged here.
It's not really as innocuous as telling someone the address of a bank- that would be like merely giving the address of Jay Unger's website where they can buy the music. It's more like telling them about a back window at the bank that's unlocked, where you can climb into the bank to get some 'free money'. :lol: :lol:
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Re: Ashokan Farewell Tab?

Postby rendesvous1840 » Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:56 pm

I've got a little too much month left at the end of the money this month. Can I get more info about that window? :lol:
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